BTM62 Transcription

Welcome to Episode 62 of Behind The Mission, a show that sparks conversations with PsychArmor trusted partners and educational experts. 

My name is Duane France, and each week I'll be having conversations with podcast guests that will equip you with tools and resources to effectively engage with and support military service members, Veterans and their families. Find the show on all the podcast players by going to www.psycharmor.org/podcast.

Thanks again for joining us on Behind The Mission. Our work and mission are supported by generous partnerships and sponsors, who also believe that education changes lives. This episode is brought to you by PsychArmor, the premier education and learning ecosystem, specializing in military cultural content. PsychArmor offers an online e-learning laboratory that's free to individual learners as well as custom training options for organizations. You can find more PsychArmor at www.psycharmor.org. 

On today's episode, I'm having a conversation with Dr. Qwynn Galloway-Salazar. A Veteran of the United States Army and a spouse to a retired combat Veteran. Her work has spent the last 20 years supporting our nation's military and Veteran communities as the founder of In Their Honor, LLC Qwynn serves as an end of life, doula and trainer. In addition to her work supporting veterans at end of life, she also serves as the co-principal investigator of the Brooklyn College Veterans History Project in which she conducts oral history interviews of Veterans, listening to how Veterans make meaning of their experiences and sharing with larger audiences. You can find out more about Qwynn by checking out her bio in our show notes. Let's get into my conversation with her and come back afterwards to talk about some of the key points. 

DUANE: As a Veteran and a military spouse yourself, and as a researcher and Veteran advocate, you focus much of your post-military life on the care and support of those who served. I'd like to hear more about your journey from the military, your military service, and to what you're doing now. 

Qwynn: Yeah, sure. But first and foremost, Dwayne, I have to say thank you. Thank you for having me here. Thank you for being the host and shedding some light on the topics that we're going to discuss tonight. So big thank you. Heart full of gratitude. 

So how did I get here? April 2001. I joined the Army Reserves.

Prior thought into making that decision was the last time we had a big conflict. I was in the third. And dating myself by saying that I was in a third grade, surely I can do this term of service and nothing's going to happen. The military is going to help pay for me to go to school. I'm going to travel and see the world because that's what my recruiter told me.

And, all jokes aside- August 2001, I came home from basic training. 9/11 happened a few weeks later and my life and the life of all of those that were currently serving at the time changed. I'm a New Yorker. So that attack on the Twin Towers hit home. As a reservist, I was called to active duty in January of 2003 to support efforts at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. My MOS at the time  was finance, so it was my job to make sure that troops were being paid and getting sent off to theater, in combat status. Tough times at that time.

I remember being, I think I was maybe 20 at the time and there were so many service members that were about my age that was getting ready to go to war and would look at me and ask, am I going to be okay? At that time I didn't have an answer. And having many conversations following that with other service members that had babies on the way, or that had moms and dads that were aging and just the concern of family, as they were getting ready to deploy. I really saw a different side of war. 

I saw the side of service members who really had care for those that they were leaving behind in support of the Operation Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. And so I did two tours at Fort Bragg. I came home, I was a mom by the time I came home. So not only was I a mom, I was a single mom. So transition was not that easy for me coming home right off of active duty and jumping into the space of mom and daughter and sister and student all over again.

And really being able to take a little bit of my identity out of that uniform and become a civilian again. I joked for the first few months coming home, “Hey, I'm taking this uniform off and I'm not putting it back on.” And even when I was discharged, I think I said something similar. In hindsight, the military never left me. I never left the military. And we're talking about a love affair that's been going on for the past 20, 21 years. 

I don't say that I chose to have this life of service after my service. It shows me I'm continuing to serve the military and Veteran community is an opportunity, a passion that continues to seek me out. And I'm just obedient and I'm here for the ride.

DUANE: I always find it interesting when I talk to people like yourself who had enlisted immediately before 9/11.  I've talked to some of the West Point graduating class of 2001. And they graduated that spring of 2001. And their mindset changed overnight. The freshmen incoming class of the service academies.They changed immediately, but by the time they graduated, obviously they were already thinking, we're going to war. But like me, I'm dating myself even more that I wasn't in the third grade when the last major conflict happened. I enlisted in the last major conflict, shortly after that. But in my career, I was already in that mindset.

I'd been in the Army for 10 years by 9/11. And so my mind was already. Let's go. This could be a potential. But for those people on that cusp of they joined a year, 2000 or 2001 in the mindset shift that you had to make very quickly, that can be challenging. On top of you were a reservist that didn't expect to.

I was a recruiter, I think at that point, it was at least 2003, 2005, but the recruiting line for the reserves in the nineties and 2000s was one week in a month and two weeks out of the year. And that changed very quickly. And so there were a lot of shifts for you very early on in your military. 

QWYNN: Absolutely. It was overnight. I went home for Christmas because I was in college. I went home for Christmas and then I got a call that said, “Hey, you need to be back immediately we’re mobilizing.” And I'm like, “But what do you mean?” Like, that's not how this works. And sure enough, I found out exactly that's how this works.

DUANE: And then, like you said, understand having that experience of supporting service members as they're deploying. Understanding again, just the finance stuff of you're the one that has to explain the survivor benefits to them, right? Like you had to confront them and be confronted with the fact that there's a good chance that this young man or woman sitting in front of me.We have to prepare for the fact that they might come back. You said that led you to continuing to serve the military community after you get out. 

QWYNN: Yeah, it did. So once again, my MOS was finance, but I also had a fit identifier for postal. So I ran to the mailroom towards the end of my tour and wow. The conversations that I had with soldiers that were deploying and soldiers that were coming home, because this was 2000 and almost five timeframe. It set me on a trajectory because I was hearing stories and I felt like I was being called into a space of actively listening to what soldiers were experiencing. And Duane, I had no, like I was a criminal justice major. My goal was to be an FBI agent. And all of a sudden this heart work starts.

This act of listening to an individual's stories started. And it just shifted for me.  I'm thankful that it did, because I think in many instances I was able to be a safe space for soldiers to say, “Specialist Galloway. I'm frickin scary.” And not always having the right answers, but being present and hearing them when listening to an officer say they're scared. You can't tell your soldiers that. And just being in that space where they can share that. And not even knowing at that time with confidentiality or any of that. It just was in my presence. I'm thankful that I was able to be that support for service members, for soldiers, as they were deploying and coming off of deployments. 

DUANE: I can imagine it. You've heard the joke. Like you don't mess with the person that does the pay, does your mail or the cook. But you are in that position in which people are. They have to confront vulnerabilities.

If you hand them a letter, for example, from someone that they haven't heard from. Even in those two positions, they are closer to their vulnerabilities. And they don't have their wall up like they do, for example, to a behavioral health professional, or their medical doc who may ground them from a mission or something like that.

 I think the combination of you being the person you are being in the positions you were in, opened that up and allowed you to be able to have those real and honest conversations. And like you said led to a lot of the work that you've done after the military. Specifically around military and Veteran suicide, which is how you and I first met a number of years ago.

So I'd like to hear your thoughts on service member, Veteran,  and military family suicide, and how we as a military support community, can approach it. Maybe how we need to approach it. 

QWYNN: I’ll start off with saying that it's definitely all hands on deck. A few years ago, I was serving the National Guard and I got a call regarding a Veteran who was in crisis and we did a home visit and she had attempted suicide. That experience changed me drastically. When a suicide attempt is so up close and personal. When you see it firsthand, not just reading about it or hearing about it,  you see how it impacts that service member, that family and that community, it causes you to want to do something, right.

And I remember this about maybe a year or two after that experience.  I saw a position for the Service Member, Veteran and Their Families technical assistance center to focus on suicide prevention. And at that time it was just the mayor's challenge. The governor's challenge wasn't even a thing yet.

It was specifically the mayor's challenge, right? Initially where you and I met and I jumped in because it allowed me the opportunity to help impact change on a local community level initially. And as time progressed and I was promoted a few times, it allowed me to do it from a national level.

There've been times where, you know I've had to roll up my sleeves and just get in the uncomfortableness, with those that are providing these services. But I also think that it's important as we're looking at the suicide numbers of our Veterans. We're also looking at the suicide numbers of their family members and the caregiving population. And so the latter leg of my work has really been focusing some attention on that. I will never forget and I'll call her by name and I'm sure it's okay.

We were at a Mayor's Challenge Policy Academy and Sean Moore said to the audience, I will never forget it. We're talking about service members and Veterans suicides, but we're forgetting about the F and we cannot forget about the families because they too are hurting and are experiencing significant challenges in silence.

DUANE: That's absolutely correct. And Sean, I will also say her name and for those who haven't heard her story, it is an amazing story. But the idea of you coming to this work and many of us come to this work because we're personally impacted. in a very real and personal way.

Not just like you said, I heard about somebody that I served with seven years ago. I think this idea of a death by suicide or even an attempt to die by suicide has some significant impacts on you personally, but now by you sharing me by extension that there's these extensions of these impacts, that one single attempt or death by suicide has very far reaching impacts. 

Qwynn: It does. Absolutely. I think the number is like 135, 1 death has a ripple effect of about 135 people, 136, really? Collectively I think that we all can roll up our sleeves. We all know that one Veteran, we all know that one family member, that caregiver that goes off the radar every now and then. Check in on them. Stay connected.

Connectedness, when you think about the pillars we talk about, for the Governor's Challenge, for example, connectedness was always the one for me, right? There isn't just this recipe or a formula that's special. It's just connecting on that human level to say, I see you. And what can I do to be in this space with you? And what, how can I wrap my arms, not just around you, but around your family as well. And those that love you as well. That moves mountains in someone's life where they don't feel as isolated. They don't feel so alone. They feel heard. They may not totally feel understood, but hey, I know that my sister in arms and my brother in arms is journeying with me and I can pick up the phone and call them if I need to. That's amazing. And that's a gift.

DUANE: And it is a gift. It can be hard work and you've transitioned from the hard work of a 21 year old postal clerk. You know, listening to these majors or whatever, like that's some hard work. Then moving into suicide prevention harder work. Moving now, even beyond suicide prevention to some very difficult work.

One of your focused projects now is addressing the needs of Veterans at the end of their lives. Those Veterans that are experiencing end of life care. Many times we'll think of the physical health needs, like hospice of caring for physical health, those things that need to be done for someone who's terminally ill. But the unique experience of Veterans requires additional knowledge and understanding at end of life care, which is that's even more difficult work than trying to teach someone how to support suicide prevention in their community.

QWYNN: It is. And I think to give it a little bit of relevance for you, if I'm not mistaken, for example, your dad's a Vietnam Veteran, right? One of my very first clients that I started working with early on when I became an end of life doula was a Vietnam Vet. He said to me the very first time I talked to him, “Why do you want to be my friend?”

And I was just like, wow. Like that resistance wall was high. And every way that he could possibly try to dissuade me from being his friend, he tried. And ultimately a lot of it stemmed from the guilt and the shame that he had carried for so many years where he didn't feel as though he was worthy and he was coming to the end of his life, still feeling that guilt, still feeling that shame.

And we would talk every week and that singular experience starting with him as just being a doula, allowing me to say, “Okay, it can't just be him. Death is a universal experience. Let's just call a thing, a thing.” And it's also an experience that we don't want to talk about. It's taboo.

However, it's important that we start talking about it. I'll bring up another name and in her honor, I'm bringing up her name. For so many of us, Dr. Kate Hendricks Thomas is a friend of ours. And when I started on this journey of becoming an end of life doula, Kate was one of the first people I shared it with.

And Kate said to me, “All those, that launder aren't lost Qwynn.” And so for the 20 years that you've been working in various spaces, serving military and Veteran populations, it's landed you here. And what's beautiful as right before Kate entered into hospice, I had the opportunity to sit down with Kate and do an oral history interview with Kate and have her legacy preserved.

And that's what it's about. There's so many ways that we can support Veterans at the end of life. Part of my work is creating training for states, right? So they can start talking about what that looks like.

I'm also working on creating a curriculum for caregivers and caregiver partners that their loved ones are coming to the end of their lives. But I'm also doing this oral history piece. Where I'm collecting stories of our Veterans that we know are dying, that are facing their mortality and giving them the opportunity to share their legacy and to preserve their legacy is a dream come true, right?

It really is. I remember one of the earlier conversations Kate had with me. This was when I was working on my dissertation for my doctorate. She said, “Tell our stories, will you promise me that you'll tell our stories.” And I was like, “That's a heck of a cake. That's a lot. That's a heck of a job that you're asking me to do.”

And it was totally my honor to collect her story and to be able to say, “Kate, what's your legacy.” And for her to want to leave her legacy for not only her family, but for society at large. And I think that's important to many of our Veterans, right?

Many of our Veterans want to be able to have sacred space where they can share their story. Whether it's from Vietnam, whether it's from Korea. World War II. Just to say, “Listen. I served and there may be some long-term impacts on my life because of my service. Will you journey with me and hear about that?”

And that's been so awesome to be able to do. And so awesome to give my time in doing, because guess what? At some point in my life and Duane, at some point in yours, that's going to be our journey. And it would be amazing to have someone in our community, someone a part of our Veteran community come to our home or come to wherever we are and just sit and hear our story and preserve our story. So in the years to come, people can know what we did in that death.

DUANE:  I think the important thing is that,obviously, as we approach the end of our lives, we start thinking about that legacy piece. And while we're addressing end of life care, physical end of life care, the unique experience of Veterans require, not require, but could benefit from somebody who also has the unique experience of being a service member to be able to relieve some of their burden. 

Qwynn: Absolutely. And it's wonderful because as of late, I've started to get  emails and calls to say, “Hey, how can we do some of what you're doing, in our communities?” And I'm like, wow really? Okay, this definitely can be a ripple effect. All it takes is someone, once again, starting with that active listening and wanting to hear.It's so amazing. Duane, what we can learn from hearing about our past to impact our future.

It's that simple. It's that simple. It doesn't take a wealth of money to do that. I look at so many volunteer organizations that are doing great work. It doesn't. It just takes the willingness. And I think for so many Veterans who come out of the military and still have that desire to serve, because I think all of us in some way, shape or form still have some desire to serve. 

That's an easy win. It's an easy win. Nothing like pairing a Gulf War Veteran or an OIF OEF Veteran with the Vietnam Veteran and just sitting down. 

DUANE: I once had the opportunity to talk to author Karl Marlantes and he's a Vietnam Veteran and wrote the book Matterhorn. And he was like, we may have served in different areas, but mud still smells like mud and blood still smells like blood. There's the commonalities between generations of service members that can really bridge that gap and can be solace. As we continue for the next 50 years, we're going to be doing this and I really appreciate you doing this very difficult, but also necessary work. If people wanted to find out more about the work that you're doing, how could they do that? 

QWYNN: Sure. You can head over to my website. It's www.intheirhonorofjasper.com/ . I am on Facebook at Qwynn Galloway Salazar. I'm also on LinkedIn At the same Quinn Galloway,Salazar. And you can always reach me by email: qgsalazar@gmail.com.

Feel free. 

One of the things that I love doing is being a collaborator, right? I think by nature, that's who I am, as well. And if this resonates right, if this heart work resonates, let's do it. Let's go ahead and touch this topic. Let's spark these conversations throughout the nation.

Boy, what a difference. It can make in someone's life, that's entering that transitional phase of the end of life. Also what we can do for their family to show that support, on that last leg of their journey.

DUANE: Absolutely critically important and I will make sure all of those are in the show notes. Thanks for coming on the show. 

QWYNN: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Duane. And thank you for all that you do. 

Once again, we would like to thank this week's sponsor, PsychArmor. PsychArmor is the premier education and learning ecosystem specializing in military culture content. PsychArmor offers an online e-learning laboratory. That's free to individual learners as well as custom training options for organizations. And you can find more about PsychArmor at www.psycharmor.org.

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Qwynn. As I mentioned in the conversation and as you could probably tell Qwynn and I have connected as a result of our mutual work in suicide prevention. And as typically happens when we're talking about improving the lives of those who serve in those who care for them, suicide is often a topic that comes up. 

Almost 20% of the episodes that we released so far had guests that were either working in suicide prevention or have a goal to address military and Veteran suicide as part of their work. But I wanted to highlight something that Qwynn said about how connectedness is an important protective factor that either keeps someone from experiencing a suicidal crisis or something that can keep the crisis from being fatal. I don't often refer to outside projects and ask the indulgence of listeners, but I know genuine connectedness saves lives. 

In 2020 a colleague and I, Dr. Shauna Springer produced a year long podcast series called Seeking The Military Suicide Solution. Much like this show, these were short episodes of genuine conversations with a wide range of guests. All talking about different aspects of suicide prevention: lived experience of attempts of loss, research, best practices and prevention, the potential of artificial intelligence and community-based training. 

After we completed the interviews, we analyzed over 175 quotes from the entire series and identified 10 emergent themes. Like the need to identify risk factors and warning signs, reduce stigma, the public health approach to suicide prevention and lethal means safety. During the final episode of the series, we featured a conversation with author and economist, Jamie Mustard who helped us identify the most important basic and compelling theme that we could communicate to the community. The 175 quotes and the 10 themes can be boiled down to one phrase. Genuine connectedness saves lives. Connecting Veterans to each other and their community. Connecting Veterans to resources. And connecting Veterans support resources to the community that the service member, Veteran and family member calls home. It is both as simple and as complex as that. Genuine connectedness saves lives. It was great to hear Qwynn's insights and to hear that concept also validated by her experience. 

The other point that I'd like to briefly share is an extension of that connectedness piece, which is Qwynn's work, supporting Veterans and their families as they undergo end of life care. I've had some colleagues in the past who were hospice nurses. And they say that is some of the most rewarding work that they've ever done, but it can also be the most difficult. But Qwynn described herself as an end of life doula. And some might wonder what exactly that is. When we talk about doulas or midwives, we think about births, someone who provides physical and emotional support during pregnancy, childbirth and the postpartum period. So take that concept of support for someone who is being born and their family and apply it to the end of someone's life. 

When they're in hospice and experiencing a terminal illness, end of life doulas are non-medical companions that support hospice or palliative care professionals and caring for those who are dying and their family members. And as I mentioned in the conversation, how important is it for that kind of support for someone who served in the military to come from someone who understands the unique culture and experience of the military. It's difficult work and it may not be for everyone to do, but as Qwynn said, it's something that we're all going to have to face. It's reassuring to know that Qwynn and others like her are continuing to support service members, Veterans, and their family members right up to the end. That's truly the definition of never leaving a fallen service member behind. Check out her work and connect with her if you think that there can be a mutually beneficial opportunity. 

For this week's PsychArmor resource of the week, I'd like to share two PsychArmor courses, a two-part series of courses titled No Veteran Dies Alone Volunteer Training. In part one, learners are introduced to the hospice and palliative care. In a part two, you learn how to prepare yourself for serious illness, dying in grief. Again, heavy subjects this week, but also very real subjects that need to be talked about. If this is something that interests you, take a look at the courses through the links in the show notes.