Episode 136 Transcription

Welcome to episode 136 of Behind The Mission, a show that sparks conversations with PsychArmor trust partners and educational experts. My name is Duane France. And each week I'll be having conversations with podcast guests that will equip you with tools and resources to effectively engage with and support military service members, veterans, and their families. You can find the show on all the podcast players or by going to www.psycharmor.org/podcast

Thanks again for joining us on Behind The Mission. Our work and mission are supported by generous partnerships and sponsors who also believe that education changes lives. Our sponsor this week is PsychArmor the premier education and learning ecosystem specializing in military culture content. PsychArmor offers an online e-learning laboratory that's free to individual learners as well as custom training options for organizations.

 On today's episode, I'm featuring a conversation with Rosie Gagnon, a military spouse, mother of eight sheep farmer artists, beekeeper and ultra marathon runner residing in Berryville, Virginia. After losing her oldest son, PFC James Dexter, Morris to suicide on February 28th, 2018. she began running 100 mile ultra marathons in his memory and is set out to complete 100, 100 mile ultra marathons for veteran suicide awareness. Note that this episode is airing during suicide prevention month in 2023. Whether you listen to rosy story. When it's released or at another time, we want you to be aware that this episode contains discussions about suicide, suicidal ideation The impact of suicide loss and other potentially emotionally disturbing subjects. We want to ensure that you're able to engage in this content in a manner that is safe to you and he cannot be set off in enough. If you were someone you care about is experiencing distress and a potential suicidal crisis reach out for help. Dial 9, 8, 8, and press one for the veteran crisis line. Or go to veteran crisis line.net to text or chat. You can find out more about Rosie by checking out her bio and links to her content and our show notes. So let's get into my conversation with her and come back afterwards to talk about some of the key points. 

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: Rosie, you're a lot of different things. Military spouse and mother, ultra marathoner, and not least a suicide loss survivor honoring your Marine son Dexter and someone who's working to raise awareness around suicide in the military and veteran population.

We're going to dig into all of that, but I first wanted to extend my condolences for your loss. And thank you for your sacrifice.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Thank you. on Dexter's behalf on.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: I'm curious the story doesn't start with Dexter's loss and,and Dexter's story of course, it is not encompassed in his loss. curious. In those things, military spouse, military mother, ultra marathoner, suicide loss survivor, where would you like to start to have a conversation about

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: running.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: Running is where it starts. Running is how I've dealt with all of those things, I guess. So how did you get started running?

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: I had, speaking of mother, I had eight children, so I started, running about three miles a day just to keep the baby weight under control never went beyond that until, gosh. the year Dexter got, started getting sick, he challenged me to run a marathon. He was in the hospital with, suicide ideation we were talking and he told me I should run a marathon.

So I signed up for my first marathon and while I was training for that, I realized how far wow, I could, I can go pretty far if I'm just taking my time. So I actually ran my first ultra marathon before I, Before I ran my first marathon of 50k, and just got hooked.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: So you started running short distances when you and you were challenged to sign up. Obviously for the marathon between when you started running and when you actually did your first marathon. How long was that?

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Oh gosh, only a couple months, like four months maybe. So yeah,

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: You did better than me. I, I, I think I started running in 2005. and for, for reasons, and, and I was doing half marathons. I, I actually never ran a a marathon until earlier this year, so it took me like 17 years

to run my first marathon. It took you like 17 weeks. I don't know. So way to jump into it.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: wow. Wow, that's crazy. It's a big jump 26 miles as far.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: It is. So what is it about running? You said it was helping you, obviously, not just, deal with what was happening, but just life in general, like it start up it. But what was it about running as opposed to maybe some other things that you could have done?

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: I'm always I'm just one of those that are always on the go if I'm not. running I'm. I've got a farm animal, so I'm working on the farm, I'm gardening, or, painting the house, or always some project going on. So I think when I was young, I used to be so fidgety in church that my mom would take me out into the lobby and make me stand on my head.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: Because I just, I couldn't stop moving. I was always in trouble in school because I was always fidgeting and moving. And running just works all that out. It does. but then the longer distances, what is it about? The marathon, even the 50 K's, but now you're doing a hundred milers. what is it about the super long distances that, that is really, really compelling for you? You

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: I'd love the challenge of a 50 mile distance for me. That was fun because you run all day, you exhaust yourself and you go home and go to bed and have a nice dinner and you, but I didn't run my first hundred until after Dexter passed away and I found in the hundred mile distance.

That there's a lot of, suffering, there's a lot of suffering, there's a lot of, mental and spiritual strength that you have to draw upon to, continue forward when you want to quit and when it's hard. And for me, it was just very symbolic of,the struggle that he went through and what I went through as a survivor and what others go through, whether it's, depression or suicide.

Ideation or,mental health, or as a survivor, just being able to realize that, no matter how hard it is or how dark it is, how alone you are, that, you just keep putting one foot in front of the other and praying and, eventually the sun's going to come up and that you're going to be able to finish the race.

And so it was just a very symbolic of that whole journey. the journey of life, And so it really resonated with what I was going through as, as a loss, survivor.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: the ultra marathon, there's a lot of pain and you mentioned suffering and suffering is different from pain.

Suffering is almost like unending pain, and so there is this measure and you say, you see that symbolic of perhaps the suffering that maybe you saw Dexter going through.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: yeah, that's,obviously there's physical suffering, but,when you're running 100 miles, there's a lot of, there's a lot of physical suffering, but it also, it's very soul involved. I feel like it's very soul involved. And so it drags up emotional suffering and all of that.

And it's all yeah. tied together in a big effort and, but it's funny in the middle of that you find moments of clarity and, it might sound hokey to use the word, but I would say transcendent. Where you find that you can rise above it I ran, I actually ran my first hundred miler. I was training for it when Dexter took his life and I had my first one two months after he died. So my training was not good and I wanted to run it in his honor and I ended up Just bombing it so bad. I was so sick and at 60 miles. I just it was impossible I was just there was just no way I could take another another step.

I was just flat out on the ground Bombing me. this told nasty. I was a mess, but there's something in that I was really disappointed like I wasn't able to finish that race for him but at the same time it was it was really healing in a way because In my mind, I was able to understand that, that you really can reach a point where you do not see any way forward, there's, you're just suffering so much that all you want to do is just close your eyes and have over and be done, doesn't matter what tomorrow is going to bring, you're just finished and,and I'd never, I'm a pretty strong person and usually I can push through most things and just, there's something about that point where I realized that, that, that's a real thing and it doesn't make you weak, it just sometimes your brain says it's enough, that's all I can do.

so it helped me, helped me cope with the loss to realize, he just reached that point where the suffering was enough, that was all he could do.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: And so you lost Dexter. We lost Dexter in 2018. What would you like to tell us about Dexter?

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Dexter was just so fun. He's hilarious. He made me laugh all the time. We both have kind of a mean sense of humor. So we were always joking and, not making fun of people, but, just twisted and, just super fun. But he was always very, always sensitive, speaking to, uh, A psychiatrist after he passed away, they said he probably as young as the age of eight was already with the illness that he had was already dealing with, major depressive disorder, that kind of thing.

And he would just. He was just a warrior. he had his eyes set on wanting to serve and become marine, and he overcame a lot of obstacles to do that. he was from, as young as, two years old, he's carrying around a stick and fighting the bad guys. And he just, he had a warrior spirit. He is a, the oldest of, he had six younger siblings, so he had a lot of siblings that looked up to him and, He was always messing with them and, you know, a big tease and he was just a lot of fun.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: It doesn't sound like it was a surprise to you that he joined the military. Was it a surprise to you that he chose the Marines or was that always going to be sort of where he was going?

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: I thought maybe he was going to do army, at first when he was younger, like maybe 12 to 14, I thought maybe that he wanted to be in the army. I married my husband who's retired Navy now when he was eight. And so up until eight, he was just sort of an unfocused warrior. He just was going to fight bad guys.

But then after I married my husband, he was in the military. Then, he became, it gave him a, a point of bad guys to go fight, but when he was maybe 15, that was about the age when he started talking about wanting to be a Marine. And, but he was also like a big kid and he loved to eat, loved my cooking.

And he had, So he had put on a lot of weight as a teenager, had bad feet and I just thought, Oh, bless his heart. He wants to be, be a Marine, but I don't know if he's going to be able to pull it up. But, when he was 16 or 17, he got into MMA and lost a lot of weight and got into good shape.

And, he actually became a full mechanic. at Ford right out of high school and then after he did that for I think two, maybe two years, then he joined the Marines. So

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: It's a challenging time to be a mother of someone who is considering joining the military because this was a time where the global war on terror was still going on. was that a concern for you?

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: No, and I think I just lived. And I'm pretty, I have a pretty, religious background, so I've always lived in a faith bubble, that God's will be done, that if my kids went in the military, that they'd be safe, they'd be protected, and if anything happened, then that was just how it was supposed to be, in theory, you just, you don't realize that the reality of death didn't really sink in for me.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: And so Dexter, first started I guess in his story, experiencing some of his symptoms, or they started coming to light while he was still in the military. and then he was discharged from the Marine Corps, probably sooner than he wanted to be

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, he knew. we have a family history of bipolar disorder and, schizophrenia and my oldest brother has both. And, Dexter was. While he was serving, he tore his ACL and the, they put him on a whole bunch of, painkillers. And I don't know if it was just the stress or being on painkillers, because he got addicted to painkillers.

And, it was just a big ugly time. But then, That was when, I think that he had the onset, he didn't have a psychotic break, but just the onset of the, the ups and downs of bipolar, but then that was when he told me privately that he was hearing voices and he said, if I go out into combat, I'm going to get somebody killed,

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: I think that was like the end there, that was what he always wanted to do. And when it was over. I don't know that he really told he had a lot that he still wanted to live for and so after he left the military, there was the struggles continued, and even intensified. And you'd mentioned that there was some hospitalization.

After the Marine Corps,

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Yeah, he, he went downhill really quick. The suicide ideation got really bad and he admitted that to us. so he was admitted and spent a week. in the hospital. And then, then when he came home, he just, it was just, it was straight downhill to the point where he ended up having a psychotic break, hospitalized for a month and then a hundred percent disabled with bipolar one and schizoaffective disorder.

And then, I think it was the, When he got the 100% disabled, he was always one that he was not going to be, then that was one reason why, he just didn't want to stay in the Marines after that, because he didn't want anyone taking care of him. He didn't want to be a, the government to take care of him, the military to take care of him.

and, here he was just unable to accept that he had this, full disability. No, it just wasn't who he was.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: no, it can definitely be challenging. I, again, I recall when I first got my, I, I knew I jumped out of airplanes 37 too many times when I was in the army. So I knew that there were things wrong. But then when I actually saw it on a paper and saying that man, the army did. Do a job on me, right?

There is this moment of realization is that what I think, I'm going to be able to power through what I'm doing. But there's something here officially saying that I can't be what I used to be anymore.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: And so you lost Dexter and you'd mentioned that in your running journey was happening, right?

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: This was something that you engaged in. but then, yeah. the ultra marathon and even continuing on after that was something that you, after his loss, you specifically said you wanted to do in his honor.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: I had,I was already training for the one, and then when I wasn't able to finish it, wasn't going to quit, so I turned around and tried again six, was like six weeks later? No, four weeks later, and finished that one, and it was just to take him with me on that, journey and accomplish that for him.

And so I wanted to do it again. and also I found like the, just the trauma. we had, I was a suicide witness survivor, we discovered him 

and that's a whole nother level of trauma that, you know, and I found if I wasn't running, after I'd done a couple races, like the emotional release that I had out running and being able to just purge out all of those, nightmares and pain and everything that I was experiencing,it would build up, in between and so it'd be like, I'd reach a point where I'd feel like I got to go out and run.

in the mountains again for 48 hours and then I'll feel better.honestly, I had relatives that thought I was trying to kill myself by doing that. And, because it's it sounds so big and it's risky, and it's hard on the body and all that. But for me, that, that was like, I felt was keeping me alive.

So

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: and yes, there, there's, it is extreme. That's why they call it ultra, right? There is an extreme, um, uh, concept to it, but. But even in, as I'm hearing you, many people who aren't runners, or even I, who consider myself a long distance runner, I get it that you dropped out at 60 miles, but that's three times as much as I've

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Yeah.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: but then, so you're now doing these hundred mile races, but now you're in the process of, that's not enough. There's more. So now you're running 100. One hundred mile races, which is mind boggling. But again, there is that that is a reach that is a stretch. What is it about sort of that extreme goal for you?

that really is not only in honor of Dexter, but also to really raise awareness around military and veteran suicide.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: at the heart of it, and I'll re I remember when it happened. It was the fifth one I finished and I was running just for him. I has a little picture and I was running in his memory. I didn't want him to be forgotten. And, That was the same race I met someone from wear blue and that was where I got connected to wear blue But at the same time I had an experience Where I just felt like he told me, mom you've done enough for me Maybe we can help somebody else and then it was right then when I was connected to wear blue And so and then it was right then when I thought well, I'm gonna do I don't know, it was just the idea popped in my head, a hundred hundreds, and I didn't know there's actually a club of people who've run hundred and hundreds, and there's only like 25 people in the world who've done that, so it seemed like this huge goal, but at the same time I knew I'd already finished a few, and so there was no reason I couldn't just keep doing them, but it was also in a way a way a survival tool for me, because this was still, it was about two, a little over two years after we lost him and still, so much pain and emotional suffering and I just wonder how I could live for 40 years, how do I, I'm right now, this day, I've made it through the day. I've survived another day and I wake up another day and my son's still dead. And so I'm going to survive this day. And I just, I couldn't see that there would ever be an end to that pain. And I thought, how can I do that for 40 years? And then I thought, if I do a hundred hundreds, it might take me 40 years.

So that'll give me something to focus on and get through so that. I can get to the end of this journey and come out and have done something, big to honor him and maybe help someone and at the same time, survived it myself. So,

you do some organized races, but sometimes you'll do that, but, but I'm curious when you talk about why you're doing this, you're doing this to raise awareness around military and veteran suicide, but I'm curious about what kind of conversations you've had with people when you share with them that you're doing this to raise awareness for military and veteran suicide.

Oh, it's so crazy. Every time I run, I try and do mostly organized races because my end goal, I want to do a hundred hundreds for Dexter, but because I do a lot of solos, it doesn't get me into that a hundred hundreds club. So that's like my goal on top of that. And they don't count solo. So I'll have to do another.

dozen or two after that. so I am usually nowadays in, in races and every, I can't think of a time when I haven't met someone who's been affected by suicide. It's not always veterans. And sometimes it's veterans, sometimes it's my My daughter, my, like this last race I did, just a guy in the parking lot came up and started crying and gave me a big hug and he just said, I have a daughter that's struggling with, with suicide and not, not sure she wants to stay.

And, and I just think it's amazing that you've taken this hard thing and, and are out trying to raise awareness. YouI'm not really that good at raising awareness, but I feel if I put myself out there that I'm willing to talk about it and I want to talk about it, that people who need to, that maybe we'll find each other and it'll make a difference for someone that day.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: and I think that's really where a lot of this is going to change is having it, not just. And I describe it, not being above everyone else, like shouting it, but getting below the noise and having those individual conversations, and being able to say, because as I've started learning your story, over the last several weeks, I've been talking about what you're doing.

and we will be continuing to share this. and again, as some of us that, Hey, did you hear about the woman who's running 100, 100 miles for her son and people, but it's surprising and it's shocking. to people, but it gets their attention. And then they say, why would, what is it that's making someone do this?

and then you're able to say, I have your attention now. Let me tell you about Dexter and let me tell you about this challenge.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: and the I've had actually people close to me that I didn't, expect who came to me and, because I've been willing to be open about it, cause I'm really actually a private person. And so for me, it's, to just throw it all out there for the world to see is a big, that's not really me, but I've felt like I need to do it.

and, I had, have had people come to me and have said, when I saw how much pain that you've been through and what you've, what it's driving you to do, that it made me go and call my doctor and call a counselor and get on medication or whatever.

And and that's happened. multiple times that just talking about it and making it real and so that it's not just a silent, stigmatized subject, but that it's open that the pain of suicide, the people suffering and the people who are surviving it. It's just, there's just pain all around, and there's help available, and people need to know that it's okay to suffer, and it's okay to get help, and that's just, that's really, what I want to express, when I'm out there, that it's okay, you know, that's all real.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: That's true. And I absolutely agree. You're now, you'd mentioned your, as this is an audio podcast, you're wearing your wear blue shirt. I should have wore my wear blue shirt, but it's in the, it's in the laundry, right? Because I, I,

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Oh, hey, hey, you.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: had an eight mile run this morning, um,

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Training for Marine Corps.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: training for the Marine Corps marathon.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: I was going to say you and I are going to be in, In the Marine Corps marathon, that's going to be your 60th, 100 mile. You're going to run the marathon. Then you're going to keep going. By the time I'm soaking my feet, you're still going to be on the road. Hey, you're welcome to come out. Come back out and do some miles. Later miles.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: but, but I'd like to hear a little bit about your partnership with wear blue now they are,reaching out and asking people to join you, in, in committing, not just to raise awareness, but to take action. I'd like to hear a little bit about. your partnership with wear blue and where that's going and what your hope is with the Marine Corps marathon and going forward.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: I mean it came as a surprise because I just it's just me running for my son But I always wear my wearables shirt and I like to put you know They have the little Facebook group where you can post the miles and stuff you do so I've always shared it and I guess they just really Thought that was worth, collaborating on.

And I just think it's so amazing, especially in conjunction with the Marine Corps marathon, that's just, It's really exciting and, they, the primary focus is for, our military who have been killed in action and, but there's a lot of our military who aren't killed in action, but they're killed because of action.

and so the chance to. Make that a part of the wear blue conversation that's there's a couple Marines that I run every time I run I not only run for Dexter, but I try and carry some other Marines with me that like pitchers who've lost their lives to suicide and. I know two of them, had three deployments and saw action and then come home and their wives end at home.

And, so the opportunity to expand and recognize, because it's a hard place to be when you have lost someone who's served to suicide, because, it, You wonder are they as much of a hero as somebody who was killed in action, like maybe they're just they're not as worthy of the honor of being in the where blue mile or something like that.

and so I just think it's really amazing to have this open up right before the Marine Corps Marathon to, to recognize the, those sacrifices of the men who may be, who came home with different. War wounds that took their lives. so being able to turn that into a hundred miler and then the idea of having people join in and like people I've never met before saying Dexter's name and engaging in conversations and talking about it.

one of my favorite things is a Vietnam veteran that I know is 80. It's 86 re retired Navy, and he told me, I can't run, but I can post something on Facebook every day about veteran suicide awareness and, and I think that's just the idea is, it's not really about the miles, it's about just getting the conversation going because I guarantee. most people, whether they know it or not, there's someone that they care about who's thinking about suicide or has thought about suicide, and it's just such a big problem right now that, if we talk about it, it makes it more okay to, give your doctor a call. You can

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: You're absolutely right. I think there is the action that people are taking as inspired by your action, which is again, a lot of action, right? 100 100 miles. I was actually thinking about my run this morning. I was like, could I do a 50 mile? I might be able to do a 50 mile in spite. I'm sure that I could, whether I would want to.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Yeah, I think I want to.

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: but then the idea of the other action that we really want people to take is. Reach out if you need help, not so much take the action of it. Yes, absolutely. Post 100 times on Facebook or walk 100 miles in a month or whatever that action is to raise awareness. But it's really, we want people to say, if you need help.

Reach out for help because

help 

is there and his help is available, Rosie. I am so glad that we're able to have this conversation in a service of service. regardless of what that services is, Dexter raised his right hand,to serve. Our country, and sacrifice of sacrifice, regardless of whatever sacrifice that came.

and so on behalf of the team here at psych armor and I'm certain many of the listeners, thank you for what you're doing. if people wanted to find out more. About what you're doing. obviously there's right now we have the campaign as, as far as the wear blue campaign. the warrior 100 campaign going on right now.

but if people wanted to connect with you, maybe learn a little bit more about what you're doing. you're posting a lot about your own personal, how can they find out more about what you're doing?

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: I do have a Facebook page, it's 100 Hundreds for Dexter, and I actually have a terrible tacky little website, 100 Hundreds for Dexter. org, I think,when I started out, I don't know anything about this, I just got on Wix and threw my thoughts down and some pictures and started,it was funny, it, it began as a, As a, as like therapy, journaling, every time I do a race, I would write about it and how I felt and, the thoughts that I had about what I was going through.

And so it turned into tradition. So I do, write about every run that I do, but, but it was pretty healing sometimes. Cause there were some times I had stuff that I wanted to say that, you go through a lot of emotions, whether it's anger or resentment, or, just.

Just pain or people not understanding or whatever, and so to be able to write through that. And then, publish to the world so that everybody knows all your innermost thoughts. But anyway, so I do have that as a little website out there, where you can read race reports and,

duane--_53_09-06-2023_163827: And I'll make sure the link is in the show notes. I'm sure people will forgive you for not being a webmaster because you're too busy running ultramarathons. I mean, you don't have time to be a web designer.

squadcaster-b48j_1_09-06-2023_183828: Hey, I'll take any volunteers though. If anybody wants to like, you know, become my, my tech person, I would be great. there you go. I'm so glad that we were able to connect virtually. I'm looking forward to joining you, for at least 26. 2 of your miles in the Marine Corps marathon. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Thank you for having me, Duane. it's been a pleasure.

Once again, we would like to thank this week sponsor PsychArmor. 

PsychArmor is the premier education and learning ecosystem, specializing in military culture content. PsychArmor offers an online e-learning laboratory. That's free to individual learners as well as custom training options for organizations. Also as another reminder, I'm certain that Rosie would join me in reminding you of the resources that are available to those who are struggling. And those who are struggling to support them. If you, or someone you care about. We are in distress please reach out to 9, 8, 8 and press one. To get to the veteran crisis line or visit veteran crisis line.net to text or chat.

I'm glad to have been able to share rosy story with you as difficult and as inspiring as it was, if you're listening to the Zipsor. So when it's released, we'd like to share a way that you can get involved to support suicide prevention, do a link in the show. Show notes. You can participate in the warrior 100 and awareness campaign through wear blue run to remember. as Rosie and I discussed at the end of our conversation. September is national suicide prevention awareness month and wear blue run to remember as launching the warrior 100 to honor the more than 120,000 service members and veterans Who have lost their lives to suicide since 2001. To support their families and to help those who are currently at risk. We are partnering with where blue to invite you to come alongside Rosie and families like hers in their own commitment to 100. Between now, and veteran's day, we invite you to move an act for suicide prevention and to give and support of your community. So I hope you appreciated my conversation with Rosie. If you did, We'd appreciate hearing from you. So if you do have some feedback, let us know. Drop a review in your podcast player of choice, or send us an email at info@psycharmor.org. We're always glad to hear from listeners, both feedback on the show and suggestions for future guests.

For this week, PsychArmor resource of the week, I'd like to share the psych armor course finding stability after suicide loss. This course shares how suicide loss survivors often find it hard to reach out for help. And the people in their lives are often unsure how to help. This course gives tips and suggestions for coping after a suicide loss. You can find the link to the course in our show notes.