Episode 115 Transcription

Welcome to episode 115 of Behind the Mission, a show that sparks conversations with PsychArmor trusted partners and educational experts. My name is Duane France, and each week I'll be having conversations with podcast guests that will equip you with tools and resources to effectively engage with and support military service members, Veterans, and their families. You can find the show on all the podcast players or by going to www.psycharmor.org/podcast. 

Thanks again for joining us on Behind the Mission. Our work and mission are supported by generous partnerships and sponsors who also believe that education changes lives. Our sponsor this week is PsychArmor, the premier education and learning ecosystem specializing in military culture content. PsychArmor offers an online e-learning laboratory that's free to individual learners, as well as custom training options for organization. 

On today's episode, I'm featuring a conversation with Danitiza “Dee” James, a US Army combat veteran. Dee immigrated to Yuma, Arizona from Mexico in 1996 where she learned English, and graduated high school before joining the Army in June of 2001. Dee served on active duty for six years and completed two combat tours in Iraq in 2003 and 2005, where she served as an M two 50 caliber machine gunner conducting escort missions throughout Iraq. Dee volunteers is the Chief Executive Officer for Repatriate Our Patriots, a 5 0 1 nonprofit organization that focuses on bridging the gaps for the repatriation of deported service members and their reintegration back into the United States.You can find out more about Dee by checking out her bio in our show notes. Let's get into my conversation with her and come back afterwards to talk about some of the key points.

duane--_33_03-23-2023_193009 (1): Dee, great to be reconnected with you. As you and I have worked on projects together before. I'm excited to be able to share the work that you're doing with Repatriate our Patriots. This is certainly a passion for you. I'd like to provide you an opportunity to share a bit about yourself, your background, and why this work is so important to you.

danitza-james--she-her-_1_03-23-2023_213009 (1): Yes, thank you duane, for having me and giving me the platform to be able to share the work that I do and why it's so important. I hardly believe, I really believe that the public will also believe it's an important work once they find out what is going on. It was Army.

I served, from 2001 to 2006, and I served as a legal permanent resident. That means I had a green card. I was not a US citizen when I enlisted in the military. And citizenship was something that my recruiter offered me or mentioned to me as a tool to have me join the military. and college was also an another thing, right?

That tool that he used. So once I joined the military, my first duty station was in Germany, and from there in 2003, we deployed to Iraq. I was there in Iraq for the surge, and I was deployed for a year. And then I returned and six months later I was on orders again to go back to Iraq for another 12 months.

During that process, I was working on getting my citizenship, putting in the applications, just I have to follow the same process any other citizen does when they're applying for citizenship. And because of the training and deployments, I was not able to obtain my citizenship before I left the service.

That left me, out of the military with a temporary, military ID card that was only good for 30 days and an expired green card. That meant I was actually illegally in the United States after serving two tours in Iraq.

duane--_33_03-23-2023_193009 (1): And I think that's something that, that a lot of people may be surprised at that, someone who served her country,you enlisted in the military, not just again, enlisted in the military, but you served in combat, not just once but twice, but still found yourself in a situation where your legal status here in the US was questioned.

danitza-james--she-her-_1_03-23-2023_213009 (1): Yeah, absolutely. and it has to do with, not a lot of people know that citizenship is not a requirement to serve and that military service as a path to citizenship is used as a tool, right? And it's really promised to us when we sign our contract and often people think that is automatic. And I also am including service members who think that they are automatically become US citizens once they enlist or join the services. There is no program designed to track it or report it to make sure it happens before the term, the first contract ends. And so it becomes very difficult. The mission, it's a priority.

You are a servicewoman, you are in the military and you are legally a part of the unit, right? So it's not something that it will hinder the mission because you're not gonna get deported or kicked out of the unit because you're not a citizen. And that's what happened to me. That's exactly what happened to me.

I did have leadership who knew that I was not a US citizen. They tried to help me with appointments and guide me throughout the process. But 2003 was a very difficult year. The mission took priority and the surge into Iraq began to develop training ramped up. We were in the field, we were getting things ready to go to Iraq.

And honestly, I myself was not even thinking about my citizenship. Neither were my buddy  to my left and to my right. Nobody was asking me if I was a US citizen. So for me, that almost fell off my mind. And I really was not thinking about that. I was thinking about, I'm about to go into Iraq. I joined this service to serve my country.

But my goals, I was never thinking I'm gonna go to war. I did not join after 9/11. I joined actually in June of 2001, and I was in basic training when 9/11 happened. Times changed, and citizenship for me was no longer our priority. Learning my job, learning what I needed to do to support the mission and come back alive, was where my focus was. And unfortunately that's where my application for citizenship was no longer on our site.

duane--_33_03-23-2023_193009 (1): And so it might be helpful, for listeners to understand like how it typically would have worked. Right. As you mentioned, recruiters do say that military service is a path to citizenship for legal permanent residents, right? those who have a green card. in a perfect world, let's say, how would it have typically worked?

danitza-james--she-her-_1_03-23-2023_213009 (1): In a perfect world, once I reported to my unit, my leadership would've known that I was not a US citizen, and the process of my application would've started, at least with making the first appointment to the legal office, where I could go and ask about information about the forms that I have to complete and fill out, and then possibly get some guidance from them.

That would've been the process. back then when I joined, there was a program because of 9/11, where applications were being processed faster, fees were being waived, and you no longer had to go and do the test or any or any of that stuff. You would just simply do the ceremony and actually the ceremonies in 2003 in Iraq were being held at Saddam Jose's palace.

So it was, it is a very, it should have been, and it would have been a very streamlined process. I joined for three years. Three years is more than enough time for my application to go through, for me to continue to make my appointments and ultimately report to the consulate, which is in Rome to do my citizenship swear in.

And that's one of the things that, that happens everywhere you go. If you're overseas, there's a consulate where you can go in and do your citizenship ceremony. So that would've been the path. but it just, it didn't work out for me like that.

duane--_33_03-23-2023_193009 (1): and I think that's one thing that, people are like, everybody knows that maybe there are some considerations. For people to do things in an expedited way, but in your situation, it didn't work out like that. But also, I don't wanna sort of give the impression that this is just something that post 9/11 veterans were dealing with because of their the frequent op tempo, which is what your barrier was, or at least one of them. This has been happening for decades.

danitza-james--she-her-_1_03-23-2023_213009 (1): Yes, it has been happening for decades. With the work that I do, we actually encounter a lot of veterans who are Vietnam veterans. At that time they were, they were drafted, right? And before they were drafted as non-US citizens, they were required to go into a post office to check in to make sure that they were here still legally, and there was nothing going on with their record. When they got drafted and they were sent to Vietnam, they missed their appointment to report at the post offices because they were in Vietnam. When they returned, they had warrants for their arrest because they had missed their appointment at the post office to check in.

When they, got to them, they said, it was automatic. I thought it was automatic, right? So even the service member back in Vietnam had the misconception of it's automatic, or my recruiter just told me I'll be a citizen, right? If I joined, I didn't, nobody told me there were additional steps that I needed to take to do so.

And so yes, this has been an ongoing problem and it's, this is why I am so happy that PsychArmor gave me this platform to bring the information and educate the public on the challenges and barriers that they exist for service members who are not US citizens. We sort to defend this country and a country that we are not even citizens of.

A lot of us have been to combat, and I will tell you this, nobody, nobody in my unit ever asked me what is my citizenship? They asked me, is your weapon locked and loaded? That's what they asked me because that's, we're there to protect each other and we you're wearing the same uniform I am. You have the same flag on your shoulder that I have.

I have no reason to guess or maybe even think that you're not a US citizen. This also goes to the leadership in the military. There are some leaders who are not aware that service members can serve without being US citizens. And I, I know for sure because I had great leaders. I know that if any N C O leader, in the unit, we'll find that out.

They will make it a priority to make sure that they, it was completed before they left. why? Because this is what we do. We take care of soldiers, and if this is something that it was promised to you and it's something that you've earned and it's something that you qualify for, we are gonna make time to ensure that you're afforded the opportunity to follow through on your application.

duane--_33_03-23-2023_193009 (1): And that's absolutely critical. But in this particular situation, we're not just talking about a benefit that hadn't been received. Like there are some very significant consequences to a former service member who for whatever reason didn't get their citizenship either in the military.And that's really where repatriate our patriot is, there are a number of former service members who face deportation in spite of their honorable service in the military.

danitza-james--she-her-_1_03-23-2023_213009 (1): Yes, that is correct. Repatriated Patriots focuses on helping those veterans who have been deported and those who are at risk of deportation. We also work to prevent future deportations. The reason why is because once you leave the military service and you don't have your citizenship.

You are just another immigrant in the United States. In 1996, there was an, uh, the IRA Act, enacted by President Clinton that put everyone under the umbrella of if you are an immigrant, non-citizen and you commit a felony, you will serve your time for the crime you committed, and then you will be deport. So I was in that category when I left the military because I didn't have my citizenship.

I was suffering with P T S D, I was used in maladaptive coping methods such as substance abuse, probably drinking and driving. I was definitely going via the wrong path because I was not getting the supports and the tools that I needed as was reintegrated back from combat from two combat tours, right?

Those were the things that I was using to cope, and I could have gotten into and committed a crime, and committed a felony, and I would've ended up just as many are across the borders. And this is not just Mexico. That they're deported to. We have them all over the world. Just that we have immigrants who served in our military.

There are from Kenya, from Jamaica, from Korea, just everywhere. We have a lot of them in Haiti. And so it's a worldwide problem, right? Because immigrants come from all over the place and I was one of them and I did not know that this was happening until about four years ago. I was not aware that veterans were being deported, and I was not even aware of the law because nobody told me.

Nobody told me, and I was a good old E three when I got to my unit. So we don't ask questions, we just hi, don't say nothing, don't make any noise. And follow the orders as you're given. So because there was no workshop, that I had to go through as a non-citizen, right? Over immigration, all this other stuff, nobody told me, and nobody told me before I left the military that you did not get your citizenship before you left. These are that some of the things that you know, that you could face as an immigrant back in the civilian community. There was no checkbox at the out processing briefings that I had to check. There was nothing, like I said, my green card was expired and I had no idea that it was expired until I wanted to go visit my mom in Mexico.

I couldn't go because my green card was expired and I had, actually, while I was deployed in Iraq, my father passed away and I had to go back to Mexico and emergency leave, for his funeral. And I crossed the border with my military ID card. So my military ID card was my passport. And that's how I went to visit different countries while I was in Germany.

My citizenship never became an issue because I was a service member. Except that when my contract ended, I was no longer a service member and I no longer had an active duty ID card. So it's something very challenging because I know everyone that I talk to, about the work that Repatriate Our Patriots does, when I tell 'em what is going on, they can't believe it.

What do you mean you serve honorably? You went to combat. We have some that have bronze metals, purple hearts, all the accolades. And they're still being deported. And that is simply because, Military service does not make any difference once you fall as, as an immigrant in the civilian in the criminal law.

If you are just processed as another person, you're not processed as a military service member, right? We're gonna take special considerations, maybe give you another chance or anything like that. And Repatriated Our Patriots focuses on number one, we don't know how many they are deported. We don't know where they are.

So we do outreach to different countries. Mexico, Guatemala, Salvador, where we know that they may be a veteran. A lot of them are elderly, a lot of them are Vietnam veterans. And on top of that, we work with community organizations that can help us educate the public, educate the public and educate service members who are currently serving without a citizenship, how important it is to ensure that they follow the process and that they become US citizens before they leave the military service. At the same time, we inform leadership of the consequences that could possibly happen or that what the veterans could face if they leave the military without their citizenship and they end up,on a, their own path.

duane--_33_03-23-2023_193009 (1): And that's really amazing the work that you do. But you also brought up a point about how easy it might be for someone  to get crossways with the law. And uou know that I''ve worked very closely with Veteran Courts and I often said that in my work with Veteran Courts,  I was one bad decision away from being a participant in the Veteran Court.

And a lot of people think, people who commit felonies, laws are such that you don't have to do much to be charged with and even take a plea, to be quote unquote convicted of a felony. and I think that's one of the things, the reasons for misbehavior in 2012, for example, were a lot different maybe than misbehavior in 1982.

Not to say that there wasn't trauma in challenges there, but we're talking about, as you said, combat veterans who have been exposed to significant trauma, who are using maladaptive coping techniques. Not because they're criminals, but because they find themselves that they don't have any other way to cope. And for veterans who are not citizens, that puts them in a very precarious legal situation.

danitza-james--she-her-_1_03-23-2023_213009 (1): It does. And oftentimes the veterans are not even aware that could be, not just them being charged with a crime, right? But that deportation could also be, another because in where the work that I do, we call it double jeopardy, right? You are charged with a crime. You serve your sentence for the crime you committed, and then you are punished again by being deported.

There is no second chance, there is no rehabilitation path after a non-citizen service member, commits a crime. There is no second chance. I know several service members who went down the wrong path and committed some felonies, but they came back. And now some of 'em are CEOs of nonprofits supporting veterans.

They're successful, they've rebuilt their lives. They got the support and healthcare that they needed. And they're blooming right now. A veteran who goes down the same path, but it's not a US citizen, does not get the second chance at rebuilding their life at accessing  those healthcare benefits, those, things that they earned with their service.

Once they are deported, it's really hard for them to even get a claim for them to even access, any type of healthcare.The VA does have a foreign medical program, but it's not offered everywhere in outside of the countries. And even to get that claim, you have to be seen by doctors who will then be approved by the VA to take in their, recommendations.

So it's extremely hard for a veteran to make a comeback after being deported. Our organization, when we reach out, we have found veterans who are homeless and one of the most dangerous countries, not only Mexico, but El Salvador, in Guatemala during the martial law in El Salvador. We had two veterans there who were homeless and they were often, facing crimes and gunshots and everything else, like if they were back in combat, right? Except there's nobody around them to have their six. Nobody has their six when they're deported. So it's, it is very challenging to send someone back to their country of origin when they left that country, when they were two years old.

They don't even speak the language. They have no family left back there. And they're not able to access any of the benefits that they bought and earned.

duane--_33_03-23-2023_193009 (1): Yeah. And I think that's what is so important about the work that you're doing and repatriate our patriots. As I mentioned before we started talking, I've been familiar with this, with some of the local stories, within my community. But because of the same reasons like people need to be aware of and be educated.

So as you'd mentioned, Repatriate Our Patriots is an organization that supports veterans at risk for deportation, and those who have been deported. What are some, and you talked a little bit about some of the things that you do, but what are some of the programs that Repatriate Our Patriots has for veterans in this situation?

danitza-james--she-her-_1_03-23-2023_213009 (1): Yeah. So some of the programs that we have are referrals, to the VA for the VA claim benefits. We connect veterans who are deported with the local VA to help them work through the process of obtaining a disability rating, or in some cases pension for Vietnam veterans. Then another program that we have is helping the families who are left behind after their service members was deported. They're left behind. They have children. These are still military families, so we contact them and connect them to organizations such as Wonder Warrior Project, even Psych Armor and other organizations who serve military families. And we remind them.

That you are still a military family. Yes, your veteran was deported for whatever reason it was, but you are still a military family. So you, this organization has resources for you. Another program that we have is we connect those veterans who have the deported or maybe at risk to pro bono lawyers.

Who can assess their cases and see if there's any way of having their cases, or their crimes removed to where it's no longer a felony that puts them in a deportation status. That is one of our biggest challenges that we've face because there are a lot of pro bono lawyers, but not a lot of immigration pro bono lawyers.

Pro bono lawyers who actually try criminal cases dealing with immigration. California has A C L U has a huge grant and they're great advocates for this. They have done a lot of work. In addition to Yale University also has a workshop with lawyers that do services pro bono. So we connect the veterans with them.

And one of the main things that we have been doing is those veterans were deported near a port of entry. We help them with food, clothing, and any other type of like daily basic needs that they may need. El Paso County has been an amazing supportive, they have actually made it one of their top priorities to rehome and help the reintegration of those veterans once they come back.

Because once a veteran that has been deported for 20 years comes back, they come back to almost nothing. Their families have moved on. They don't, no longer have a home. They don't have a job. So the organizations in El Paso County have started to come together and set up a type of a reintegration or re resettlement program for veterans who are coming back from deportation.

We don't want those veterans to come back after all the work, and come back to be homeless. Come back to be unemployed and without any assets, that may lead them to end up down the same road that they were when they found themselves, doing a crime. So that is a very important part of what Repatriated Our Patriots do, connecting and being that bridge.

For those veterans who are outside of the United States, how to give back to our community and we come back to have that second chance that we're not given.

duane--_33_03-23-2023_193009 (1): I think that all of those are amazing and, and like you said, it's inconceivable that people that I served with. Hey. and I'll, my battle buddy, fellow platoon sergeant, in Afghanistan, he's from Honduras. and at that point, I mean, you know, he was a senior nco.

He had obviously, you know, obtained his citizenship. But where he was born and where I was born didn't matter when we were both leading patrols, in Afghanistan. and to hear that this is a challenge that so many service members still and have been facing for years,definitely great work that Repatriate our Patriots is doing. So if people wanted to find out more about the work that you're doing, connect with you, support you or the veterans that you're working with, how can they do that?

danitza-james--she-her-_1_03-23-2023_213009 (1): They can go to our website. we are at www.repatriateourpatriots.org. We also have several opportunities for volunteers. If anyone wants to help volunteer, to support our mission. The entire staff at Repatriate Our Patriots, we are all volunteers. None of us collect salaries. Everything that we do it out of the kindness of our heart. And because we love the mission and we are believers that we are not gonna leave anyone behind, and it is until they all come home, not just all come home from a war zone. Right now, they're areas where they have been deported to  feels like a worsen for many. So until they all come back we really need everyone's, support in this situation because our service members signed a blank check with their lives, right?

And veterans who have been deported can come back in a box. They are able to, if they die while they're deported, they can come back to the United States and be buried at a national cemetery with full honors, but they cannot come back alive.

duane--_33_03-23-2023_193009 (1): Wow. And again, the whole purpose of this is to help people understand even that truth. Dee so glad that you were able to come on the show today. I really appreciate you sharing the story of Repatriate Our Patriot.

danitza-james--she-her-_1_03-23-2023_213009 (1): Thank you very much for having me, and thanks everyone for listening.

Once again, we would like to thank this week's sponsor. PsychArmor. Psych Armor is the premier education and learning ecosystem specializing in military culture content. PsychArmor offers an online e-learning laboratory that's free to individual learners as well as custom training options for organizations. 

As I was having this conversation with Dee, and again, as I listened to it while I was producing the show, I realized this is making me angry, like full on angry. And maybe you're thinking and feeling the same thing, that this just ain't right. If you served in the military, you're likely thinking of those you served with, who may be in this situation, and it likely makes you angry too.

In combat, it doesn't matter where you were born, who you were married to, what you believed in. Even Dee's story when she deployed to Iraq in 2003, a full 12 years before combat occupational specialties were open to women. She was locked and loaded and engaging in combat. The argument against women in combat has been asked and answered a long time ago, and to think that after serving her country in combat, she would be in jeopardy of being deported is infuriating.

But anger can be beneficial if it's used as a motivator to action. So if this is something that makes you angry or is something that you think shouldn't be happening, then reach out to Repatriate Our Patriots and see how you can get involved. It's always said that the United States is a nation of immigrants.

Now to discount that the nation is not entirely immigrants, the fact that all of us are living on land, that is the ancestral home of native and tribal citizens. But the fact is that many of us are only two or three generations removed from our own family members who immigrated here from other countries.

My father's mother immigrated from Mexico in the 1920s, and my mother's father came to America from Poland after the Second World War. So this is not just something that is or could be happening to other people. These are our families, and for those who served, these are our brothers and sisters in service. 

Another quick point. One argument may be that veterans who are being deported are the ones who are charged with felonies and convicted. As Dee mentioned, however, it does not take much to get involved in the criminal legal system. I know of a situation in which a veteran in the midst of a suicidal crisis was waiving a gun at someone who came in the room to stop him and was charged with felony menacing. Bar fights can result in serious assault charges if a gun knife or other weapon are involved.

Veterans who are experiencing undiagnosed or untreated post-traumatic stress disorder combined with substance use disorder could very likely find themselves in court facing criminal charges. We're not talking about habitual criminals here, but individuals who are experiencing significant distress who happen to be coping in maladaptive ways.

Let me be very clear here. Not all veterans are dangerous. Not all veterans are violent, and not all veterans find themselves in these situations, but there are hundreds of veteran courts across the country for this very reason. The criminal legal system recognizes that there are extenuating and mitigating circumstances that exist for veterans involved in the system, and that is often as a result of untreated mental or behavioral health conditions rather than habitual criminogenic.

However, if you add on top of the fact that the veteran's legal status in this country is questionable, then not only are we holding the veteran accountable for the crime that was committed, but then taking them away from everything they've ever known from the country that they fought to protect and defend, and telling them that they can never come back. There's a lot wrong with that from beginning to end, and it's happening to those who served. So I hope this conversation with Dee has made you think, as it has made me think. 

If it did, we would appreciate hearing from you. So if you do have some feedback, let us know. Drop a review on your podcast player of choice, or send us an email at info@psycharmor.org. We always like to hear from listeners, both feedback on the shows and suggestions for future guests. 

For this week's PsychArmor resource of the week, I'd like to share another podcast episode that I think would be a valuable companion to this one. Episode 52 featuring Scott Tirocchi, as we talked about Veteran Courts and the organization Justice for Vets. In this episode, we talk about the importance of veteran treatment courts and the need to support justice involved veterans. You can find a link to the resource in our show notes.