Episode 112 Transcription

Welcome to episode 112 of Behind the Mission, a show that sparks conversations with PsychArmor trusted partners and educational experts. My name is Duane France, and each week I'll be having conversations with podcast guests that will equip you with tools and resources to effectively engage with and support military service members, Veterans, and their families. You can find the show on all the podcast players by going to www.psycharmor.org/podcast.

Thanks again for joining us on Behind The Mission. Our work and mission are supported by generous partnerships and sponsors who also believe that education changes lives. Our sponsor this week is PsychArmor, the premier education and learning ecosystem specializing in military culture content. PsychArmor offers an online e-learning laboratory that's free to individual learners, as well as custom training options for organizations. You can find out more by going to www.psycharmor.org.

On today's episode, we're gonna be talking about an event that's gonna be happening in a couple of weeks after this episode is released, the Warhorse Symposium presented by the University of Chicago's Harris School of Public Policy and the Warhorse News. Well, you will certainly have an opportunity to participate in the symposium if you're listening to this episode when it comes out. I think both the symposium and the conversation we're gonna have today will be beneficial to listen to and understand whenever you hear it. The symposium itself is a day long convening both in person and presented virtually where members of the public are invited to discuss the human impact of military service with legendary journalists, world class scholars, and the senior government officials shaping the United States Department of Defense and Department of Veterans Affairs.

Features speakers include John Stewart, secretary of Veterans Affairs, Dennis McDonough, and the Deputy Secretary of Defense, Dr. Kathleen Hicks. Inspired by the Warhorses award-winning journalism and a Harris public policy authored white paper about how military news deserts threaten national security. The Warhorse Symposium will explore the intersection of solutions journalism and public policy, while promoting discourse and civic engagement about military and Veterans issues across the United States.

Joining me to have this conversation about the symposium is Thomas Brennan, founder of the Warhorse News, who served as a marine infantry man in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Iraq and Afghanistan before studying investigative reporting at Columbia University's graduate School of Journalism, and one of the featured speakers of the symposium, Valerie Suttee, a librarian writer 35 year Marine Corps spouse, and 2022 Warhorse Fellow. Find out more about the symposium as well as more about Thomas and Valerie by checking out the show notes.

duane--_32_03-17-2023_065340-1: Thomas, great to have you back on the show, and Valerie, great to be able to have this conversation with you.

We're talking today about the Warhorse Symposium presented by the Harris School of Public Policy coming up on April 6th, 2023. Thomas, I'd like to start off with you looking at the lineup of the guests. The symposium looks to be an exciting conversation about the intersection of journalism, public policy, while also highlighting the issues important to service members and veterans across the country. What can you tell us about the symposium and why you think it's important to have this conversation?

Thomas: Yeah. Again, for having me. It's a daylong symposium, where we're bringing together journalists and policy makers and the leaders of D o D and va, alongside civilians, veterans and military family members, for a conversation, and to make sure that the military families and the issues that veterans are facing are at the forefront of the conversation. Been a long haul, for, the war hoards, a small team, putting this together. But we're really excited for it and grateful for everything that, the Harris schools helped us put together.

duane--_32_03-17-2023_065340-1: and I think that conversational aspect of it's probably very important. A lot of times it's a one way sort of communication where maybe the media is reporting sending things out. This doesn't seem to be people up on a stage, where you're just getting a sit and get kind of information. You're actually looking to have a good back and forth 

Thomas: Yes. I mean, a good percentage of it is gonna be, panel discussions and things like that. But it was really important for us to make sure that we were leaving ample time at the end to take audience questions both from, virtual participants and people who are actually in the room.

DUANE: Now this is going to be on location, uh, Chicago, but there's also a virtual aspect too.

Thomas: So the virtual aspect is really important to us. We want people to be able to adjoin from, every military community across the country, as well as, uh,every news desert. But this is an opportunity for us to reach into underserved communities where veterans and military families live and help them be better understood by their communities to help their communities better understand that they're an asset to their community, and that they bring something positive And to also talk about some of the difficult issues too. That's a big part of it.

duane--_32_03-17-2023_065340-1: And you talk about a news desert. I think that,in the National Guard really says this is the majority of the zip codes that have service members in them, right? but there are many states, many communities, people like, we don't have veterans here.

Well, there are veterans here. and if there aren't a large number of veterans, then the media's not talking about stories that are important to that. That's really what you're talking about is those large gaps where people don't think that service members, veterans and their spouses are there, but they really are.

tj_1_03-17-2023_085340-1: Yeah, there's a real, there's a real decline that's been taking place in the media,when it comes to military reporting over the last few years, you've seen cuts at military times. You've seen them similarly at, the New York Times. New York Times is the most profitable newspaper in the world, and back in 2020 they cut their, at war blog, which was award-winning. It was where I got my start. So there, there's a real lack of, representation for Veterans and military families within journalism.

And the media is often where, this country talks about what's important stories show what we find valuable, right? If we're always talking about the clown card that is politics, that's what people think we care about. But when people start to see that they're veterans or military families are in the media and that they're represented in the broader public discourse, then my feeling is that they feel like they are better represented in this country, in their communities, more understood and more likely to come forward with their stories and share those with the people around them. And public access to information is the core function of journalism. Yeah we have a real job to do when it comes to helping the country understand the people who wear its uniforms and the families who serve alongside them.

USB Audio CODEC : That's great. And speaking of families, we're joined by one of the featured speakers of the symposium, Valerie, so glad to be able to share your story. You're a military spouse and a 2022 warhorse fellow. I'm interested to hear why you think it's important to be part of the symposium and what being able to share your story means to.

audiovaleriesuttee11711749145: Well thank you so much for having me today. I think it's important for spouses, military, family members to be included in these discussions because, in my opinion, the military family is one of the bridges to civilian society. We are civilians. Most of us are interacting in that area.

And I think our stories are in some ways, more relatable to the average American. I'm married to a Marine who been a combat several times. I can't relate to what he did. I can't picture myself in that situation, but I know that he's just a regular guy and our family is a regular family. So the ability to attend something like the Warhol Symposium, to share what I would've long thought was just kind of a minor little view, not an important part of the story, but I do think with so many people who, have taken on the burden in this country, that many others haven't, it's nice to hear our stories and the fact that they're missing more and more.It's more important than ever to have kind of a venue to talk about it. I think it's important for us to share our stories because we are often looked at just like the military to large as one conglomerate of one thing, right? One type of person and, the military spouse, the military family service members, veterans are a representative of every population in this country. We're just as diverse as the country is. It's important for people to be able to see themselves in our stories, to hear our stories, to see us as individuals, and then have the chance to maybe see themselves in those stories. I had the opportunity to write an essay for the warhorse and the response that I got from both military communities, military family members and non-military kind of showed me that although the stories that we share are not exactly what the average American lives, the issues and the struggles we have are the same. We just have different settings we had a mental health challenge in our family and, I wrote about it. And although, we were facing a lot of other additional challenges at the time, there are families across this country right now that are facing the same mental health struggles that we had.

audioDuaneFrance,MA,M21711749145: I think as you mentioned, stories are similar within the community, but they're also very different to people who might not have served. Actually, and I think it was the Marine who shared this with me, especially in the Marine Corps, you're either enlisted or appointed into it, born into it, or married into it, right?

But you are then into that different Culture. Right? And so you have the experience of, as you said, not being a member of the military, but really being as steeped in military culture, but even more specifically Marine Corps culture, and have that stories. And without a platform to share those stories.Those stories are untold.

audiovaleriesuttee11711749145: Right? We're just tell 'em to each other at that point, having an opportunity to have a larger platform to Talk about both the challenges, which there are special challenges for military families. I'm not gonna act like they're exactly the same as everybody, but you know, we all want the same things for our families.

We all want our families to be safe and secure and to be successful. And I think that's,if people could see us as, Not the same, but being similar enough that they can relate to what we need and what we want and what our lives are like.

audioDuaneFrance,MA,M21711749145: What I really appreciated about your work with the warhorse and we'll link to your essay in the show notes, is it speaks to both the military population, a military family member. You know,I, as a service member,with children who went through my deployment experiences. Someone with the military background will read that essay and feel one thing and someone without a military background will read that essay and be Informed or surprised maybe even that, that's an experience that I think that's really a again, a way to be able to have that sort of communication so that whoever's interacting with what you are presenting or writing or, developing in the media, it's accessible on a number of different levels.

audiovaleriesuttee11711749145: I agree. I as a librarian, language is one of the things that's very important to me, and I think one of the things that drives a wedge between the military's and civilian communities, and I don't think that the civilian community is aware of it, is the way military service members, family members, veterans are discussed and kind of set aside. It's all done in a lot of ways with a lot of reverence. There's a lot of discussions of being a hero and then people will talk about spouses as being saints for being able to live like that. And actually I know that's trying to be, complimentary, but in some ways it just kinda sets us apart.

Just kind of says, okay, well they're, they're different. the other end of that is the discussion of P T S D, so you get two types of stories about military and military families. Is that, you know, the hero or, when it's the negative side, which may be mental health struggles, things like that, and really we're just people dealing with the same struggles as everybody else. But I think language is part of the key.

I think I have so many well-meaning people say to. . Oh, your kids are so resilient. And it's not that that's not true, it's just that I just disagree with the idea that someone gets to tell someone else what they are. My kids can decide whether they're resilient or not. I can decide that. And I think when we put labels on people, we just make it very easy to, to s slot 'em somewhere and say, okay, well done with that. Thank you for your service. I don't have to think about that anymore.

audioDuaneFrance,MA,M21711749145: Yeah, no, I, as you were even talking about that, I was thinking that Idea of labels, whether it's hero or saint, or resilient. I'll tell you, I don't feel like a hero. My wife will be honest that she ain't no saint. And that's the same idea is that well, they're a hero and, or they're a saint and I can put them in that mindset.

And anything that, again, this is when the stories are told by people that are not in the community or not familiar with the community,that puts distance in and absolve people of the responsibility of engaging on a real human level.

audiovaleriesuttee11711749145: Right. I mean, I've had people close to me say all of those types of things and it's well-meaning, but it just, it's just something that makes it easy to not really think about. I think one of the other reasons, our stories are important to tell is that, we are real people and we are now in a, time of peace.

I'm not sure if that's accurate, but we're not in Afghanistan anymore. And so I think we've, we'd slipped off the radar a long time ago. We're really far off of it now, but all of the struggles, all of the people that we've become because of that lifestyle, we're still here. And those things are still ongoing.

And I think that getting to know these stories is important.  I've got the chance to go to the warhorse writing seminar for spouses, and I was blown away by meeting all of the other spouses that were there. I've met spouses from other services before. We've served on different bases and different branches, and I have friends from those services, but not many.

And now I have a lot more. And it was amazing how quickly we all became close. And it was amazing how different all of our stories were. I think that every warhorse reflection that I read, I'm blown away by, because it kind of bring, I won't wanna say history to life, but it kind of brings history to life.

These are real people, I've always rejected, again, language, the term ground troop. When used by the media because it really takes away the individuality of what you're doing. It's not like when you talk about ground troops, you're talking about Sergeant Jones and he has a mom that lives in Kansas City.

He has a daughter. You're talking about Captain Rich, so when you, again, when you just make it a one stop shop for discussing on this, it lets you not think about it. you can just move it on and say, yeah, we're gonna move in there with ground troops. And I'm not saying that the, I'm not talking about the decision to put people in somewhere. I'm just saying, if you're not thinking about what that means, then you need to put a little more thought into it. But we are talking about real people.

USB Audio CODEC -1: I appreciate that and also appreciate how warhorse really, as you were talking about, brings people together. And again, that's really what the symposium is. Thomas, looking at the symposium, you've got a really great lineup of guests as you've mentioned.

You've got some leaders from both the D O D, from the Department of Veterans Affairs. You have people with lived experience like Valerie and other guests, and you also have some individuals, like you said in the media. What can you tell us about the guests on the symposium?

tj_1_03-17-2023_085340-1: What I wanna say is that I am so grateful for how quickly all of them said yes to being involved. The level of enthusiasm that people have had for this symposium. Honestly has made it really hard to quit and not do it. It's been frustrating. I'm not gonna lie, it's a lot of work.

But, there's a lot of enthusiasm for this. I mean, the, the fact that the dod, I, I, I don't take it lightly that the DODs coming to the table on this. think it's fair to say that the DODs pretty secretive sometimes and, there hasn't always been the best relationships with reporters, but for them to see were talking about the recruiting challenges and the military and civilian divide and, military family issues with the Deputy Secretary of Defense. Those are all newsworthy and timely topics. And the fact that they're willing to have the conversation that's just that's awesome. I'm really grateful. and for me now, it's really just about bringing the symposium to life, on the sixth and having it go off really well.

duane--_32_03-17-2023_065340-1: I agree. and you talk about, people are willing to have these conversations, but they're not always willing to have these conversations in such a public way. Like you might have the conversations with someone from the Department of Defense about some of these challenges. But that's not in such an open public forum, which I think is really where some of the value is. 

audioDuaneFrance,MA,M21711749145: Valerie, like Thomas I'm curious to hear your reflections on the variety and even notoriety of the guests that you're gonna be sharing the symposium.

audiovaleriesuttee11711749145: I am amazed to be a part of such a group of people. Like I can't even, I'm just blown away and I'm so honored, to be in this discussion. Yeah. From the top. People that are making incredible decisions about this country, people that are guiding the discussions about these topics. And then the panel members that I'm with are great because obviously I like to stay in the lane I'm in and I'm in the family lane and I, I, you know, having someone on our panel to talk about the National Guard, which I think gets overlooked often in these discussions. They've been a part of all of these conflicts overseas and here, and we don't talk about them.

We don't talk about them, that they are. They're in every community out there. Veterans are in every community out there too, but we have people serving in the National Guard everywhere, and no one knows about it. So I can't wait to hear about that. I like the idea that we have a journalist on our panel talking about this very desert of coverage that exists.

I live in an area that is done heavily military. In a conventional sense, we're filled with veterans. Sure, we're filled with National Guard members, we don't have a base close to us. And I see nothing in coverage of military families. And it doesn't have to be like, the only time we're gonna hear something about it is it's gonna be a homecoming from someone.

Or if someone does something bad. I love the fact that we have a journalist on the panel to talk about that as well. I hope that we have a broad reach and the symposium I always, in the library we talk about trying to bring people into the library and there's some people that are never gonna get in the library because they just, whatever, that's not their thing.

There are some people, there are diehards. They're always gonna come. So you don't, no matter what you do, so you're always kinda the battling for that middle ground. And I think, I hope that's what we reach with the symposium. We're gonna get the people that are already invested and involved and their core and they're important  to continuing these stories.

There's some people that'll, this won't be on the radar. They don't care and that's fine. But there's a lot of people I think out there that if they knew more about these issues. A lot of people don't realize things just because it's never been brought to their attention. So if we can bring attention to these issues, these people, through this event, hopefully we can move the needle and get some more honest discussion, some positive coverage, and maybe have a dialogue about what military service is today.

audioDuaneFrance,MA,M21711749145: Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate that idea. You talk about, like in your and maybe in contrast to my community that has five military installations within the geographic boundaries of our county. And so I see a lot more military and veterans stories because it is such a large fabric of our community.

But outside of that, in large cities that don't have, like you were talking about, a military base, it is either the extremes, either the really great stuff really good, feel good stories, which confirm the stereotype of the hero and the saint, or the really bad stories, which really confirm the stereotype of the broken warrior.

But there's that great middle ground of which, just people doing good stuff, that's missing. And then as you're talking about here, bringing in that middle group of people,it's really that huge middle ground that a lot of people are missing.

audiovaleriesuttee11711749145: I agree. And it's harder in the communities that don't realize that they see veterans every day. I, it's funny, I go to the grocery store and there is set aside parking for Veterans there. And while I think that's nice, I never see anyone park there because I don't think necessarily that's what Veterans are looking for.

I'm not a veteran, so I'm not gonna speak for them.  I think it probably more helpful than having designated spots would be to be open to hiring practices that are favorable to veterans. That consider military spouse employment, which is so low compared to everyone else. I was encouraged, I saw recently. Not here in my area, but in the area where I, we used to live at a base, that they are discussing, changing the school year to address the needs of the military families in the area because they have so many military families and they end up leaving before the school year is over or arriving at a wrong time.

And so the fact that we've got actual communities that are starting to consider, those needs, is progress. But again, that's a small area near a base, so those people are gonna be way more tied in. So hopefully, in our symposium, maybe just the idea of opening people's minds to, that these certain issues exist for certain people and that they're worth discussing.

Not necessarily saying that we have to wave our hand and make everything perfect for us because of this life. But having the discussion and having people be just aware of things is a big step. I think.

USB Audio CODEC -2: And I think that really, again, goes back to Thomas's point of if we're not talking about it in the media, seemingly it's not important, although it is important and that's where, in that other community, for example, it was something important to that community. And the stories that were being told did at least lead to a discussion and probably policy changes, whereas if the conversation isn't happening, then policy change discussions are not gonna be considered. So Thomas, looking at that point, as Valerie is a great example of the importance of having voices with lived experience in the conversation. My sense is that if the voices of the military affiliated population are not in the media, one of two things occur. Either stories aren't told or they're not told well. It seems to me that the symposium is really a public conversation about that specifically.

tj_1_03-17-2023_085340-1: So the whole, the whole symposium is built around a white paper that started, so you and I were both fellows at the Bush Center, different years. But, my project while I was down there was I did a media needs survey where I had about 300 people, national security leaders, journalists, veteran service organization leaders take this survey, to provide information that led to the white paper.

And what time and time again, what participants were saying was that journalism is not doing the job that it needs to do to make sure veteran and military family stories are told, and that it's having a negative impact on not just recruiting, but it's impacting our national security. The lack of context was something that was just really, apparent time and time again as we looked through the responses to the surveys. Whether it's at a local level or a national level, the fact that veterans and military families aren't represented in newsroom staffing, you know,  they're poorly represented, not that they're not represented, they're poorly represented in the breakdown of coverage of military and veteran families.

One of the few studies that we were able to find that analyzed content across the board found that 5% of all journalism focuses on military and veteran affairs. by comparison, we spend about a trillion dollars on, D O D and va, which is twice what we spend on the next four things in this country: healthcare, infrastructure, diplomacy, and, education. So needs to be accountability. Like there, there needs to be journalism looking at these things, whether it's the unbalanced budget or what we ask, I'll say marine grunts cuz I was a marine grunt. You know what we asked marine grunts to do on the front lines, like whether it's money or blood.

Like we, we need to have this conversation. And time and time again in the white paper, people pointed out that the context is missing at a local and national level. The staffing is missing and this is having a negative impact on our national security.

duane--_32_03-17-2023_065340-1: I absolutely agree, and I think that's a very important perspective. And again, really for me being a consumer in, in some small ways a part of the conversation, but as a consumer, it is very much, you actually have to deliberately look to find stories.

And if somebody's not thinking, and that's with my own background. I'm interested in military and veterans stories, so I seek them out. So if people wanted to find out more about the symposium, register for it, if they're not gonna be able to be there in person, to view it online, how can they do that?

tj_1_03-17-2023_085340-1: Yeah, so right at the top of, the warhorse.org, we've got all the landing page and the information for the website. You can also check out the Harris School. And we'll be putting up updates on our social media, the Warhorse news, over the next few weeks leading up to it. And then we've got some, good VSO partners that, that are helping us, amplify this opportunity.

duane--_32_03-17-2023_065340-1: Good stuff. So Valerie, I really appreciate both you and Thomas being able to join us for the show, to talk about the symposium. If people wanted to find out more about you, maybe connect with You, how can they do that?

audiovaleriesuttee11711749145: I'm on LinkedIn. That's probably the easiest way for people to find me. I'm new to this, representing myself as a, I don't wanna say an expert, but using my military spouse identity as something other than just being a person. If you're interested in what I have to say or libraries, which I am very fond of as well, you can find me on LinkedIn.

audioDuaneFrance,MA,M21711749145: Absolutely. I'll make sure to link that as well as a link to your essay in the show notes. Thank you both so much for coming on the show today.

audiovaleriesuttee11711749145: Thank you so much for having us and for talking about all the topics that you talk about.

tj_1_03-17-2023_085340-1: Yeah. Thanks for having me again.

 Once again, we would like thank this week sponsor PsychArmor.  PsychArmor is the premier education and learning ecosystem specializing in military culture content. PsychArmor offers an online e-learning laboratory that's free to individual learners as well as custom training options for organizations. 

I'm glad that we were able to highlight the work that the Warhorse News is doing and to share the information about the symposium. Again, if you're listening to this after the early spring of 2023, you missed the opportunity to join the symposium, but it's never too late to engage with the great work that the Warhorse is doing or to advocate for some of the concepts we talked about during this episode. 

And hopefully this isn't the last time that a public conversation about military and veterans issues in the media happens. And the lineup for the symposium is spectacular journalist Bob Woodward, John Stewart, Iraq War Veteran, and Purple Heart recipient, Senator Tammy Duckworth, medal of Honor recipient, Florent Groberg.

And it's not just about the people presenting, it's about the topics that will be. The origins of the PACT Act, the largest presumptive benefits increase in the history of VA healthcare as well as the future of VA healthcare as it relates to toxic exposure with VA secretary Dennis McDonough.

Both policy changes that began with discussions in the media about burn pit exposure. And as Thomas alluded to conversations with Deputy Secretary of Defense, Dr. Kathleen Hicks, about ongoing recruiting and retention challenges, the implications of the military and civilian divide, and the issues impacting military families.

So if you're interested in being part of the conversation, or just hearing what was said, then sign up to attend the symposium in person if you're gonna be in the Chicago area or attend online by going to the link in the show. So I hope you appreciated this conversation with Thomas and Valerie as much as I did.

If you did, we'd appreciate hearing from you. So if you do have some feedback, let us know. Drop a review on your podcast player of choice, or send us an email at info@psycharmor.org. We're always glad to hear from listeners both feedback on the show and suggestions for future guests.

For this week's PsychArmor Resource of The Week , I'd like to re-share the previous podcast episode with, talking more about the need for military and veteran voices in the media, episode 46. In that episode, Thomas and I talk about his background and the warhorse, the award-winning nonprofit newsroom that specializes as a source for impactful reporting on the human impact of military service. You can find a link to the resource in our show notes.